PPC Origins - Kelsea Smart

Narrator: Welcome to Getting Granular, the podcast where digital marketing experts from the agency granular talk about the latest trends, tried and true best practices, and share their unfiltered thoughts about the industry. Whether you are here to learn how to grow your business, improve your digital skills, or just want to hear some Midwest PPC experts rant about digital media, you’ve come to the right place.

Chris: Welcome, and thank you all for tuning into the Getting Granular podcast. I’m your host, Chris Cesar, senior manager of Paid Media here at Granular. Joined today by one of our most expert new people. I, I’m gonna put it that way. Um, not new at all, and, and just happened to be in town. Kelsea Smart.

Kelsea: Hello.

Chris: Paid paid meeting manager.

Kelsea: Yes. Paid meeting manager.

Chris: Great to have you in. So, for those who don’t know or may know, <laugh>, Kelsea is one of our extraordinaire. Florida, Florida employees, um, happened to be in town for, for the holidays. So figured, Hey, you’ve been here for how, two, three years?

Kelsea: Yep, a couple months. Um, just in my two years in October. So

Chris: Two years, just, just recently. So yeah, have her in town figured, Hey, you know, every all the new employees get to do this. Why don’t we treat you like a new employee again for, for an hour or so. Uh, thanks for joining us, Kelsea. Glad

Kelsea: Thank you.

Chris: Great, great to have you in.

Kelsea: Thank you.

Chris: Thank you. So, I, I guess aside from the fact that I just told everyone, you’re from Florida. Tell, tell us about yourself. Who is Kelsea?

Kelsea: I am a born and raised Floridian. Um, I’m in Clearwater, Florida. Um, but for those, not in Florida, the Tampa Bay area is just more known. Um, but yep, I’m one of the southern gals. Um, and it is very cold right now, so I’m a little out of my element. Um, but when I’m not working and in the advertising space, um, I am a big, like boating, just anything on the water. I really love fishing, um, camping on islands, snorkeling, all that fun stuff. Um, everybody else already knows. But, uh, I think one of the big things that people will first off say about me is I’m obsessed with cats. I’m one of those crazy cat ladies. Um, Sarah probably mentioned that too. So we’re, we’re one and the same in that aspect. But, um, I have two kitties at home and I love them more than anything.

Um, and I guess another interesting fact that I tend to bring up a lot, but my parents in January moved down to the Caribbean. Um, so if I’m not in the States, that is probably where I’m at visiting them. So it’s not a bad spot to have to go when you say, I’m going to visit parents. Sometimes it’s in <laugh>, you know, middle of Florida somewhere where you don’t necessarily wanna spend the weekends. Um, but it’s like a mini vacation when I have to go see them. So I guess those are just some quick facts about me.

Chris: We’re all devastated for you.

Kelsea: I know. It’s <laugh>, it’s a shame

Chris: <laugh> for, and for those of you who may be in the Wisconsin area, and I heard Kelsea say, it’s really cold today. The weather is like 35, 40 degrees. I wore a sweatshirt. And meanwhile she’s got like six layers on. She’s got a scarf, a sweater, and like a jacket. It, it’s not that cold guys.

Kelsea: It’s cold to us. We’re, I think it’s like sixties right now at home, and we’ll still consider that cold. And you will see Floridians dressing like it is 10 degrees in Milwaukee when it is anything below 70. So yeah, we are big pansies and complainers when it’s just the slightest bit cold. Um, and we’ll also complain when it’s too hot. So we’re kind of always complaining. <laugh>

Chris: Again, we’re all devastated for you <laugh>. Um, one other thing I did wanna call out, you, you mentioned the boating thing. Okay. And she knows,

Kelsea: Had a feeling you

Chris: Were, she knew exactly where I was gonna go with this, so that had to be like, what the first or second time I met you in person,

Kelsea: Probably. Yeah.

Chris: And you were in town and you told this, this story, and I feel like this is the story that everyone has to know. It’s about you and your boating affinity. Yeah. And I, I’m just gonna set it up and you just go, just go.

Kelsea: So a couple years ago, me and my, um, good friends went down to the keys. Um, we, most of our friends, um, have boats, but they blew a leaf spring, so we had to rent a boat really last minute. Um, so when we got down there, went to the docks, thought everything was fine and dandy, um, we were going out to snorkel a, um, reef that was about five miles shore, give or take. Um, and beautiful day out was about three and a half inch and up to four miles, um, offshore. And our boat fell off plane. And we all looked back and was like, do we need to stop? Do we need a quick bathroom break? Like, what’s going on?

Chris: Okay, your boat fell off plane.

Kelsea: So when you’re like going fast, it kind of kicks up a little bit. The bow of the boat’s, like raised some. Okay. Yeah. The bow of the boats when you’re, you know, cruising. Um,

Chris: Oh, like, it, it,

Kelsea: It was like this. And then all of a sudden we were, yeah,

Chris: It’s, it’s really good in a podcast. The boat was like this, and then it went like this. The boat was like flying straightforward and then tilted up

Kelsea: Opposite,

Chris: Tilted down.

Kelsea: You’re up a little bit when you’re going fast, like the bow is right, propped up a little bit. And then we just kind of flattened out and lost a lot of

Chris: Speed. Okay.

Kelsea: So that’s better way to explain

Chris: It, that that makes a lot. Again, we’re in Wisconsin. I know. Yeah. We spend a lot of time <laugh>. The, the summer lakes are great, but again, you’re not getting four miles out anywhere because the, the, the other side of the lake is a mile and a half

Kelsea: Across. Yeah, yeah. I need a, I need to northern it up a little bit. <laugh> Wisconsin it up for me a little bit anyway. Um, but yeah, so we all looked back, we’re like, what’s going on? Um, we had two other couples with us. Um, and so all the guys went back and were very quiet and me boating my entire life. I was in a, my parents threw me in a pack and play on our flats boat when I was an infant. So I’ve grown up on boats and could tell something was off. And I knew that they were trying not to scare or cause concern to everyone else, but I knew something bad was happening. Um, and so they opened up kind of like the hatch to the middle of the boat to open up the hall. And there’s probably already three feet of water in there, ish. I’m not, can’t tell you exactly, but let’s just say there was a ton of water. Um,

Chris: A con, a concerning amount of water,

Kelsea: Very concerning. Um, so I could make this story two hours long, but we basically, with what seemed like a minute, the boat was almost completely underwater. Water was up to our, um, like knees ish. Um, the bilge pumps on the boat were not working at all. They sent us out with malfunctioning bilge pumps. So that’s what pumps water out of the boat. So for the last four miles, we were just accumulating water. None was being pumped out. And it’s normal to have water come in the boat. That’s what bilge pumps are for, but really doesn’t work or doesn’t help if they don’t work at all. Um, so knowing the keys, I used to vacation there every year and I was like, those buoys that are, you know, 10 yards above or ahead of us, um, they’re anchored into the ground. So if we can get our boat over there, I know we’re not going anywhere.

So if we give the Coast Guard our coordinates, they’ll at least know exactly where to go. ’cause we were really close to the, um, um, trying to think of the main waterway, but the drop off, the something, whatever it is. But basically you can be from one point to another in 20 minutes and you’re taken two miles. So by the time we called the Coast Guard, we gave them our coordinates. We tied up to this buoy, um, because it wasn’t our boat and we rented it, we weren’t sure how it was gonna sink, if it was gonna be Titanic style and just go down, or if it was just kind of gonna capsize because some boats are made of foam. Um, so we just were safe. Didn’t wanna be sorry. So we cut the line. Um, by the time the Coast Guard got to us, our boat was probably a mile behind us.

Um, it was all six, or me and five other friends were holding onto a buoy. Coast Guard came in a like 34 foot cutter boat, plopped us outta the water, and that was the kickoff to our keys trip <laugh>. But all things considered, we handled the situation really well. Um, we knew the water, um, you know, all my friends, for the most part, I think like half of us had our boat’s license. So at least we were prepared. We knew what we were doing, but that was wasn’t fun to get back on the boat the first time after that. But we’re, we’re, we’re better now.

Chris: <laugh>. But it also wasn’t your boat, so you knew your

Kelsea: That’s my dad’s, um, favorite saying. He goes, Hey, it’s not my boat. <laugh>.

Chris: Yes. Um, yeah, I think that’s all right. That’s, that’s the podcast everybody. Yeah. I really just, I really just want everybody to hear that story. We’re wrapping up. We’re we’re good here. Um, yeah, no, that’s, that’s everyone’s favorite Kelsea story. <laugh>. Yeah. We almost drowned four miles out because our boat sank. And like four, like, that’s just, yeah. You think about a triathlon or an Ironman, that’s what, a 2.6 mile swim. Yeah. So you’re not swimming back.

Kelsea: I don’t think we could see shore. I don’t. And if we could, it was like ants compared to everything else on the horizon. Yes.

Chris: I don’t know if you cut my Fighting Nemo reference in there either.

Kelsea: Oh, no, I didn’t. The

Chris: Drop off.

Kelsea: Oh, yes. I was trying too hard to think of the, like Atlantic current or whatever current,

Chris: The East Australian current. Come on, go watch Gobert. That’s, that’s actually the

Kelsea: Extent. Well, that, but on Florida’s

Chris: Coast. Oh, with you? With you.

Kelsea: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris: <laugh>. See, that’s, that’s the extent of my, that’s the extent of my ocean knowledge is things I learned in Finding Nemo. So I would’ve handled the situation much worse than me. <laugh> worse. How did you call, did you have, like, you had cell phone on cell?

Kelsea: Yeah, we had, well, we were dropping off, so, oh, quick tip to anybody. That hopefully never happens, but if you ever are in a position like this, um, don’t try and call the Coast Guard, just call the police. Because we called the Coast Guard, our internet was in and out, so we had to call them back a couple times and they were like, well, this is the, uh, marathon key Coast Guard. You’re gonna have to call the key West Coast Guard. And we’re like, can you transfer us? Can you, you have to have their number something. Um, and while I was on the phone with them, another friend was on the phone with the police, and they were the ones that were able to just route us through. So no matter what, call 9 1 1 <laugh>.

Chris: But like, but you, like, you were like treading when you say these buoys.

Kelsea: I was, I had my phone held up like this for a half hour until Coast Guard came, because I was the only one whose phone this

Chris: Is. This is a podcast. So when she says, I had my phone like this above, she’s holding your hand above her head. <laugh>. So you’re like treading water with your phone above your head, is that,

Kelsea: Well, we had, um, life jackets, so we were able, we weren’t like treading water the whole time. Sure. And then the cushion, the seat cushions on the boat, um, those are flotation devices too, so we threw those into the water. So,

Chris: So you, you were floating

Kelsea: Yeah. But

Chris: Holding your phone up in the air.

Kelsea: Yeah, I, I was the only one I think, out of all of us who didn’t have water damage. So I’m like, I need to <laugh>. We need to have one communication device. Yeah. So let me just make this my job for,

Chris: I, I think for most people, aside from not dying, the the next biggest thing is I hope my phone is okay.

Kelsea: Yeah. Yep. And oh, it, we had a, we took a trip to the T-Mobile store later that day. So <laugh>

Chris: Anyway, I’m glad we got that outta the way because that was the story that everyone needed here. That’s a good one. Um, let’s talk a little bit more about, you know, paid media and what, what you do here. Um, so I, I guess that’s a sort of the, the, what I want to know about you next is, you know, how did you get into paid media? What got you into it, how you got here.

Kelsea: So I started off at a full service, um, advertising agency. Um, was one of the people on our team who, um, had more of a specialty in paid media. Um, but because we were a full service, I had my hands on traditional marketing, digital marketing, um, along the line we opened up a production studio, um, so have some production knowledge. Um, but throughout that, um, I really fell in love with PPC and wanted to make that be more of a priority and a focus. Um, and so that’s kind of why I ultimately decided to look at just PPC advertising firms. Um, just wanted to hone in my skills, better my skills, and really become an expert in that field. Um, I think I learned a ton, and I have a great, um, like full circle knowledge of advertising, which helps me in PPC because I know how all the different verticals of marketing work together. Um, but really just fell in love with it and wanted to make my career more dedicated to that specific vertical. Um, there’s so much to learn in there. Um, and I wanted to dive deeper and not just be surface level with my strategies. Um, and that’s ultimately how I kind of ended up at Granular.

Chris: And I, I don’t know that you said this specifically, but I I think your, your, like initial expertise was in more like photography.

Kelsea: Um, so when I started out, I was doing more, um, like digital media, social media also, um, strategies there. And then, um, once the production studio opened up, I did have more of a focus there. So was doing, you know, photography lessons, kind of helping and almost being a producer for some of the video work that we did. Um, a lot of it more was that kind of organizational kickoff piece to it, like the pre-production. Um, so it kind of, it kind of changed as I was in my last position. So started off more digital media ended on kind of more a production note. Um, but throughout all of that, I still had my hands in all of the different aspects. Um, it was a much smaller company, so I get a lot more hands-on work doing everything there. Um, so yeah, kind of transitioned a little bit as, as I was in that position.

Chris: So you really wanted more to, you started with digital, moved away from it, and your goal was ultimately to sort of come back to where you started.

Kelsea: Yep. I fell in love with it and knew that I really wanted to just dive head first and focus in just on PPC instead of, you know, the full advertising for a client. Sure. Whether that’s, you know, website, email, um, even like white papers, things like that that we did. So I wanted to stick with PPC and learn everything that I could about it.

Chris: And that’s what brought you here.

Kelsea: That is what brought me here.

Chris: So that’s, that’s a, that’s what I like to call, I’m at the right space, smooth transition. I’m, yes, <laugh>. So how, how did, again, a long time listener to this podcast will probably be able to figure it out, but how, how does someone from Clearwater, Florida end up at a local Milwaukee agency?

Kelsea: Funny story. So I’m sure, like Chris said, if you are a long time listener, um, Megan Klein, one of our coworkers, um, I saw her at a raise game. I heard my name from behind me and was like, who is calling my name at a random raise game on a Tuesday afternoon <laugh>. And got to chatting a little bit and told her that I was kind of looking to get into more of a PPC advertising role. And she said, well, hey, that’s exactly what I’m doing. I work for an amazing company. Let me see if we’re looking, you know, to hire anybody, put a good word in. And had an interview with Jordon a couple weeks later, and two in some change, two years in some change later. And I’m here <laugh>.

Chris: How do you know Megan?

Kelsea: Um, act, oh, I forgot to say that. Um, she was with me at my last, um, company that I worked with. So we worked with each other before this, um, for probably a little over two years. Um, and then she came to Granular and followed her after Covid. Um, kind of, you know, we did the whole remote thing. Um, the entire landscape changed, and I think that is also kind of what kicked me into the position of this is a great time. So much is changing in the advertising landscape right now. So let me kind of, um, make the leap now and kind of transition with everything else transitioning right now.

Chris: So you knew Megan previously Yes. And you still decided to come and work here?

Kelsea: I did. I do love Megan. <laugh>

Chris: Good. Megan’s great.

Kelsea: And I have a travel buddy too, so we all love

Chris: Me. That is nice when you guys come up from Florida. Yeah, we all love Megan. She’s great. I give her, I give her grief <laugh>, she’s acceptable. <laugh>, <laugh>. So we’ve already sort of talked about how you, you got into paid search, paid media, you were doing it before mm-hmm <affirmative>. You know, got away from it and wanted to come back to it. Um, what did the paid media landscape look like when you started?

Kelsea: Um, when I first started, um, I think the biggest thing was AI was just kind of coming onto the scene. Um, and we weren’t even really calling it AI necessarily. Um, we’ve kind of really taken over that word in the last couple years. There were definitely, um, AI things emerging, um, but they were nowhere near as prominent as they are today. Um, meta used to be called Facebook and Instagram respectively. Um, so that was another big change. I guess you can throw WhatsApp into there now too. Um, but yeah, I think kind of overall the biggest thing was AI was just kind of getting on the rise. Um, you know, Google was starting to, I think this was like 2018 Google started a beta test. Um, or responsive search ads get into that kind of landscape that now we just, it’s kind of the norm for us.

Um, but there was definitely some hesitancy at the time over these new formats, wanted to test them and kind of embrace them as much as possible. But understandably, there was hesitancy with implementing this. Um, all these, you know, new things that were coming out. And, um, another thing is video formats were not as dominant as they are now. Um, short form video content was kind of just emerging and we didn’t know how influential it would be. Um, and coming from a background of production in some aspects, um, I think that was looking back a really interesting change that we saw. Um, makes sense. I mean, you’re able to tell and convey so much more over video. Um, so definitely love that that has become such more of a focus for us. Um, but you know, back then at the time we had no idea of how, um, influential it would be over, especially all the social channels. Um, and kind of again, the new norm for us.

Chris: Yeah. And when you say everything was ai, without calling it AI <laugh>, I, I think we were all talking about like smart campaigns.

Kelsea: Yeah, yeah.

Chris: Which were anything but smart.

Kelsea: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Chris: <laugh>, it was, here, give us your money, we’ll make it work. And then you try it and then, oh, this was really bad.

Kelsea: Let me not do that ever again. Yeah, <laugh>,

Chris: Which, and I, I know the next question is again, how have things developed, but that, that was sort of the initial hesitancy of, you know, I don’t wanna put my money in this because I wasted so much previously. Oh, oh,

Kelsea: Yeah. And,

Chris: Um, but again, with the, the emergence of chat GBT and everybody talks about it, it’s almost like you have to go in that direction now.

Kelsea: Yeah. I think we’re more open to embracing it because we’ve been exposed to it for longer. We’ve, you know, have years of, um, whether it’s things like chat, GPT or um, you know, we’ve been working with automated bidding strategies for a while. Just all of that is kind of made us more open to trying whenever there is a new form of ai. Um, I know another one of the kind of newer things that are still working out some kinks is like the AI created ad ads, whether that’s just static ads, video ads, whatever that may be. Um, and I think that’s a great example of, we definitely still have some hesitancy going into those things. Um, but more open than we were, you know, five, 10 years ago too, not 10 years ago, but <laugh> to, um, testing those out and kind of seeing what the impacts are.

Chris: Eventually you’re gonna be staying 10 years ago. Yeah. And then you’ll be like, oh, I’m old <laugh>. I like to think that I’m still like that college kid that just likes to screw around and then it’s like, oh, I’m one of the older people here.

Kelsea: Yeah.

Chris: It’s only a matter of time for you.

Kelsea: I think I am, for a really long time I was always kind of the youngest. Um, I was always called like the baby of, you know, the company. Um, but I think we have someone younger at Granular now, so it kind of takes

Chris: Rachel, Lauren,

Kelsea: Rachel, I think Rachel’s,

Chris: I have no idea how old

Kelsea: She is, so some someone can take that place for me, <laugh>. But yeah, for forever I was, I was always the young youngin of the group.

Chris: You go from the youngest to the oldest, just really quickly, and it’s not fun,

Kelsea: But yeah,

Chris: <laugh>, yeah, just be ready, be prepared for that

Kelsea: As much as I can be.

Chris: Yeah. You got, you got time. You got time still. So what would you say then, is your, your favorite part about working in paid media?

Kelsea: I, I think it’s a pretty common answer, but I do at the end of the day, think this is why 99.9% of people are in paid media. But I love driving results. I love having a direct impact on whatever client that I’m working with, whether that’s lead gen or e-commerce, but just knowing and being able to tangibly see the impact of my efforts have on a business, it’s rewarding. Um, it makes you feel good that you’re able to do this for another business. Um, and kind of at the end of the day, that’s what keeps me going. That’s what keeps me wanting to continue to grow and learn and hone in on all of my skills that I can. Um, but yeah, just driving results I think it keeps, keeps us going. <laugh> for sure.

Chris: Yeah, definitely. Measurable, you know?

Kelsea: Yes. Yeah.

Chris: Measurable results that that help. You know, you see the direct, you know, the client’s business growing. Yep. Because we’re the work we’re doing, which is great to hear. Um, what about granular specifically do you, do you like about working here?

Kelsea: There I can rant and rave about granular for forever. I think just so many aspects. We have a great team, um, no matter who it is, everyone’s so willing to help and granular fosters an environment of continuing to learn, pushing us out of our comfort zones. Um, you know, really being at the forefront of testing any and everything that comes out, um, with backed by data. We don’t, you know, just not willy nilly testing something just to test it. Um, but staying ahead of trends, um, granular really pushes for independence and ownerships of our ownership of our clients. Um, so again, I think that just kind of goes into the driving results aspect a little bit more. You really feel like you personally had a large impact on clients, but, um, kind of just every single aspect of granular, um, I think, I think they’re just a great company. We work for a great team. Um, yeah.

Chris: Okay. Now it’s everything you hate. I’m just kidding. Don’t say that.

Kelsea: I, I can’t because there’s nothing there, <laugh>.

Chris: Good answer.

Kelsea: Good answer. Okay. I will say the cold <laugh>,

Chris: That that’s, that is actually, that’s the correct

Kelsea: Answer. Yeah, exactly. <laugh>, I’m,

Chris: I’ve still been pushing for that team outing down in Florida and

Kelsea: Hey, you guys are always welcome.

Chris: I get, I get, I get shot down every time I mention it, <laugh>, so what are these days?

Kelsea: We’ll, we’ll figure something out, but yeah, there, there’s two of us down there. So we’ll make it, uh, however many

Chris: Hire some more people down there and eventually the Florida people outnumber the Milwaukee people. And then we’ll just have to have, you

Kelsea: Have to have to

Chris: Have every team meeting down in Florida.

Kelsea: Yep. Hey, I would love to, I’d love to show you guys our, our stomping grounds,

Chris: But only in the winter,

Kelsea: I guess. <laugh>,

Chris: I’ve been in Tampa in July, it’s not fun. Oh

Kelsea: No, it is paired with whatever crazy percentage of humidity we have. It’s, it’s brutal

Chris: <laugh>. Yeah. I, I can you get used, used to it can confirm. Um, so let’s, let’s take a step forward then and look, say look to see, you know, what do we anticipate the future of paid mm-hmm <affirmative>. PPC and paid media looking like. What, what are you foresee, you know, what, what is it you’re excited about? What is it you’re concerned about?

Kelsea: Again, we’re gonna talk about ai, um, and machine learning, but I think it’s a double-edged sword there. Um, it’s definitely something I’m excited about. Um, like I said earlier, kind of where we’re gonna see, um, like ad creative go when it comes to ai, um, predicting you, is your intent even better? Um, but on the other hand, it also is a concern for me because we do sometimes feel like we’re losing visibility or control of some of the decisions that we, um, previously, you know, made ourselves and now they’re kind of taken over by ai, um, can kind of feel like you’re flying blind at times. Um, so I think that’s a perfect example of kind of both sides of that. I’m super excited about it to see where, um, you know, AI in the advertising space ends up in 10 years. Um, but I think there’s reasonable concern with that too.

Um, we kind of want to have as much control over all of our, you know, the different aspects of our campaigns. And I do feel like over the last year or so, um, we’ve kind of lost some of that. Um, so I think that’s the biggest kind of concern that most, you know, advertisers do have about that. Um, but there’s also an insane amount of opportunity, um, on the positive of that. Um, so really looking forward to seeing where we end up, um, in the AI slash machine learning front of that. Another thing I’m excited about is the kind of visual and immersive ad types that we’re starting to see come on in, on the scene. Um, AR and vr, 3D visuals, video, just kind of continuing to see how we can tell the story, um, and really get that across to um, users. Um, and then final concern, um, I think a lot of us, if not all of us have this, but just rising cost, making sure that the smaller fish out there is still able to compete with the big fish. Um, ’cause worked with a lot of small businesses before and they still need to, they still need to be on the landscape and be seen. So, um, I think that kind of kinda wraps up what, you know, both sides excited and scared about <laugh>.

Chris: Absolutely. Very thorough. Zero follow-ups. Um, so as we, as we wrap up, um, one thing I like to ask everybody is, you know, any words of wisdom, be it industry related, personal related, you know, what, what would you like to tell people if you give ’em one piece of advice?

Kelsea: Trust your gut. Um, bring it back a little bit. The day of the boat accident, I had a weird feeling and was in a car accident a couple years before that and just had a weird feeling, felt something wasn’t right. Something told me that, you know what, maybe today’s just a stay at home kind of day and not the, like you’re tired and lazy, but a genuine gut feeling, but just always starts your gut. If something’s in your body’s telling you something, it’s telling it you for a reason. So, you know, don’t, don’t test <laugh>, don’t try and see what it’s trying to tell you. Um, yeah, just, you know, always follow your instincts and I think if you, if you kind of take that piece of advice, um, that can take you places.

Chris: Excellent. Um, well one last time, Kelsea, thanks for joining us.

Kelsea: Thank you.

Chris: Thanks for brave in the cold weather. I know your 60 degree Bing Winter is <laugh> probably painful right now, but

Kelsea: We’ll say, we’ll say brave in it, but

Chris: Yeah, brave in it <laugh>. Um, but yeah, hopefully have you back sometime soon, next time you’re in town.

Kelsea: Yes, definitely. You so much weather. Yes, I’ll take that too. <laugh>.

Chris: Um, and thank you all for listening to the Getting Granular podcast. Uh, be sure to subscribe so you don’t miss out on any PBC tips, tricks, or news in the digital marketing world. I’ve been your host, Chris Caesar. Thanks for getting granular with us today.